AUTOLISI E VIA DISCORRENDO - SPLENDIDA DISCUSSIONE OT

[sub]

ok then !

I think we shall all first think about what characteristics our pizza should have ( for me it is: high digestibility, great crumb, very soft in mouth, great taste, good coloration )

and how to achieve it with the flour we use (we all agree a medium flour is best for the verace )

after that it's just a mathematical equation: what we can get with x parameters

you want a high digestibility ? do a lot hours.

you want an airy cornicione with big air cells ? go for an high hydration.

you want it all ? so, with a high hydration, we should stick to a short autolysis / small amout of yeast, do a maturation around 20° for 15-20 hours.

[paolopf3]

ok then !

I think we shall all first think about what characteristics our pizza should have ( for me it is: high digestibility, great crumb, very soft in mouth, great taste, good coloration )

and how to achieve it with the flour we use (we all agree a medium flour is best for the verace )

after that it's just a mathematical equation: what we can get with x parameters

you want a high digestibility ? do a lot hours.

you want an airy cornicione with big air cells ? go for an high hydration.

you want it all ? so, with a high hydration, we should stick to a short autolysis / small amout of yeast, do a maturation around 20° for 15-20 hours.

Thanks Sub for your good explanation.
Apreciated!

But i'd like to know why do you exclude autolysis with a pro mixer?

Thanks.

Paolo

[sub]

Prego !

But i'd like to know why do you exclude autolysis with a pro mixer?

Because I dont think a pro mixer need it (maybe I'm wrong, I don't have any experience with those babies)

I'm refering to an Omid post:

In light of the brief discussions we had in regard to aerobic and anaerobic reactions, I would like to share with you the pictures attached hereunder. Yesterday, using a double diving arms mixer by Pietroberto (which has an amazing ability to aerate dough), we made about 45 kilos of dough at Pizzeria Bruno. The dough was mixed for about 20 minutes without interruptions. When I turned off the mixer, the dough immediately began to settle down, whereupon I distinctly heard some of the trapped air in the dough to forcibly gush out, akin to a punctured tire rapidly deflating. This occurrence is not unusual; it happens often, both during and after mixing. Next, with the aid of a knife, I carefully cut a big chunck of the dough to take a look inside the dough mass.

The first and second pictures, below, show what I saw. Notice all the air pockets trapped inside the dough. There were multitudes of tiny air pockets that are not visible in the pictures. My Kitchen Aid and Santos mixer can not aerate dough this well.

[Napoli72]

ok then !

I think we shall all first think about what characteristics our pizza should have ( for me it is: high digestibility, great crumb, very soft in mouth, great taste, good coloration )

and how to achieve it with the flour we use (we all agree a medium flour is best for the verace )

after that it's just a mathematical equation: what we can get with x parameters

you want a high digestibility ? do a lot hours.

you want an airy cornicione with big air cells ? go for an high hydration.

you want it all ? so, with a high hydration, we should stick to a short autolysis / small amout of yeast, do a maturation around 20° for 15-20 hours.

Thanks Sub for your good explanation.
Apreciated!

But i'd like to know why do you exclude autolysis with a pro mixer?

Thanks.

Paolo

I too....

Ps: mitico questo OT

[Napoli72]

Prego !

But i'd like to know why do you exclude autolysis with a pro mixer?

Because I dont think a pro mixer need it (maybe I'm wrong, I don't have any experience with those babies)

I'm refering to an Omid post:

In light of the brief discussions we had in regard to aerobic and anaerobic reactions, I would like to share with you the pictures attached hereunder. Yesterday, using a double diving arms mixer by Pietroberto (which has an amazing ability to aerate dough), we made about 45 kilos of dough at Pizzeria Bruno. The dough was mixed for about 20 minutes without interruptions. When I turned off the mixer, the dough immediately began to settle down, whereupon I distinctly heard some of the trapped air in the dough to forcibly gush out, akin to a punctured tire rapidly deflating. This occurrence is not unusual; it happens often, both during and after mixing. Next, with the aid of a knife, I carefully cut a big chunck of the dough to take a look inside the dough mass.

The first and second pictures, below, show what I saw. Notice all the air pockets trapped inside the dough. There were multitudes of tiny air pockets that are not visible in the pictures. My Kitchen Aid and Santos mixer can not aerate dough this well.

Hydratation?

[sub]

I don't know exactly, Of respect to Bruno's omid never entered into the details...

[Pere153]

Io direi, impasto ad AI.

Le Pizze vengono strepitose, ma usa troppa farina nella stesura e sembra che non abbia troppa manualità.

[Pere153]

@Napoli: Volevi sapere l'idratazione di questo impasto?

"Omid: It is hard to tell because we do not weigh the water and flour when we make dough at Pizzeria Bruno.
However, I am certain that the hydration of the dough in the above-referenced picture was at least 70%"

[paolopf3]

Hi Sub,
you show me the air the pietro berto mixer can fill inside the dough.

Notwithstanding it's very very important but this's different from autolysis.

I'm getting into the matter right now but i think the autolysis can help the whole softness to get higher than a simple direct method.

Actually i don't know if autolysis in a pro mixer can help further. Unfortunately i have my pro mixer in sorrento ( i live in naples ). So i need much more help on this matter.

The choice of flour is critical and the combination with autolysis time might make the difference.

I don't want to use any indirect methods and hope autolysis can help me in my continuous search of softness.

I'm quite sure not to reduce yeast to much. Fragrance, in my opinion, relies on it (indirectly).

This is what i'm testing now.

During tests i've seen a 54% hydration dough much more softer than a 70% one ( i mean after cooking ).

Paolo

[Napoli72]

Hi Sub,
you show me the air the pietro berto mixer can fill inside the dough.

Notwithstanding it's very very important but this's different from autolysis.

I'm getting into the matter right now but i think the autolysis can help the whole softness to get higher than a simple direct method.

Actually i don't know if autolysis in a pro mixer can help further. Unfortunately i have my pro mixer in sorrento ( i live in naples ). So i need much more help on this matter.

The choice of flour is critical and the combination with autolysis time might make the difference.

I don't want to use any indirect methods and hope autolysis can help me in my continuous search of softness.

I'm quite sure not to reduce yeast to much. Fragrance, in my opinion, relies on it (indirectly).

This is what i'm testing now.

During tests i've seen a 54% hydration dough much more softer than a 70% one ( i mean after cooking ).

Paolo

Ciao Paolo, io uso una tuffanti professionale e pratico un'autolisi di 5-6 ore.

Cio' che ti posso dire e' che l'autolisi migliora sensibilmente la qualita' della maglia (texture) e la capacita' di assorbimento dell'impasto. La migliore sofficita' e' una conseguenza di cio'.

La quantita' di lievito si riduce invece - a parita' degli altri parametri ovviamente - con una migliore ossigenazione dell'impasto (p.e. con il metodo Bertinet e/o corretta manipolazione dell'impastatrice)